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	<title>Comments on: The Importance of an Evolutionary Worldview (Quote of the Week)</title>
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	<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/</link>
	<description>formerly known as What Is Enlightenment?</description>
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		<title>By: Frank Luke</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-22530</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-22530</guid>
		<description>Hi again Caroline, re: &quot;the Buddhist monk can do his little bit and someone else can do their little bit, but to what avail, ultimately?&quot;

If each person does his little bit, that&#039;s better than nothing, isn&#039;t it? At least the efforts should be with the objective of bettering the world or attempting it. We all aren&#039;t called upon to make momentous impact on the course of human events but with the collective efforts of humans, like with voting, each personal act becomes incorporated in the collective effort. 

Are you familiar with Milton&#039;s sonnet &quot;On Blindness&quot;? There&#039;s the line &quot;He (We) also serve only stand and wait&quot;.

Two thoughts: 

1) When devoid of ideas, it&#039;s well to do nothing till a good idea dawns.

2) Watching to see how events play out with the hope of having those in position to act meaningfully is OK. With our internet and emails, we can give feedback if that can help the cause.

Your question is something all of us frustrated in seeing there&#039;s so much that needs attn going unattended in a meaningful way. 

But hopelessness is for losers who give up and stop caring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again Caroline, re: &#8220;the Buddhist monk can do his little bit and someone else can do their little bit, but to what avail, ultimately?&#8221;</p>
<p>If each person does his little bit, that&#8217;s better than nothing, isn&#8217;t it? At least the efforts should be with the objective of bettering the world or attempting it. We all aren&#8217;t called upon to make momentous impact on the course of human events but with the collective efforts of humans, like with voting, each personal act becomes incorporated in the collective effort. </p>
<p>Are you familiar with Milton&#8217;s sonnet &#8220;On Blindness&#8221;? There&#8217;s the line &#8220;He (We) also serve only stand and wait&#8221;.</p>
<p>Two thoughts: </p>
<p>1) When devoid of ideas, it&#8217;s well to do nothing till a good idea dawns.</p>
<p>2) Watching to see how events play out with the hope of having those in position to act meaningfully is OK. With our internet and emails, we can give feedback if that can help the cause.</p>
<p>Your question is something all of us frustrated in seeing there&#8217;s so much that needs attn going unattended in a meaningful way. </p>
<p>But hopelessness is for losers who give up and stop caring.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Luke</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-22529</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-22529</guid>
		<description>Hi Eden, re: &quot;Now my dream of escaping from the world to a peaceful existence in a log cabin by the lake is forever dashed..&quot;

Ah, you&#039;ve gotten and taken rightly EN&#039;s call to get engaged in the world rather than being on the sidelines!

Maintaining personal peace is also part of the deal, not to lose that if it can be helped. Being peaceful in the eye of storms is important and helpful, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Eden, re: &#8220;Now my dream of escaping from the world to a peaceful existence in a log cabin by the lake is forever dashed..&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah, you&#8217;ve gotten and taken rightly EN&#8217;s call to get engaged in the world rather than being on the sidelines!</p>
<p>Maintaining personal peace is also part of the deal, not to lose that if it can be helped. Being peaceful in the eye of storms is important and helpful, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Luke</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-21974</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-21974</guid>
		<description>John, re: &quot; Unless the rest of the world is willing to learn from India’s mistakes, well……&quot;

Is it that India hasn&#039;t learned from mistakes or that there&#039;s been a falling away from lessons learned. Oh, that&#039;s a mistake,isn&#039;t it? 

India has developed some of the most spiritual teaching and teachers but like wisdom, &quot;getting it&quot; depends on a long-term reinforcement, like with any learning to remind people of the lessons being put forth and how those lessons play out in everyday life.

What&#039;s happened in India is that there are so many faiths competing to be accepted as Truth, and they obviously throw aside the main message of religions of peace and harmony with others. It&#039;s not what you think you believe but how you behave. Killing others in the name of religion is an oxynmoron, key word: moron.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, re: &#8221; Unless the rest of the world is willing to learn from India’s mistakes, well……&#8221;</p>
<p>Is it that India hasn&#8217;t learned from mistakes or that there&#8217;s been a falling away from lessons learned. Oh, that&#8217;s a mistake,isn&#8217;t it? </p>
<p>India has developed some of the most spiritual teaching and teachers but like wisdom, &#8220;getting it&#8221; depends on a long-term reinforcement, like with any learning to remind people of the lessons being put forth and how those lessons play out in everyday life.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s happened in India is that there are so many faiths competing to be accepted as Truth, and they obviously throw aside the main message of religions of peace and harmony with others. It&#8217;s not what you think you believe but how you behave. Killing others in the name of religion is an oxynmoron, key word: moron.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Luke</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-21973</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-21973</guid>
		<description>Hi again Carolin, re: &quot;You divide the world up into false categories when you say that Life and Existence is a beautiful blessing but the products of the human mind are crap&quot;

I harp on the idea that we humans have the potential to be &quot;our real selves&quot; but until a spiritual Awakening Event is attained, this potential remains dormant for most, unawakened and unrealized. For me there&#039;s a difference between a Self and a self, unawakened. 

By Awakening, one not only realizes the full spiritual potential and our consciousness is heightened to the responsibility of committing our Selves to the betterment of the world in a realized way. It&#039;s possible to be spiritual w/o that Awakening but with that attainment, it&#039;s much more committed, IMO and personal experience. 

To all: May I ask if you&#039;ve had an Awakening or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again Carolin, re: &#8220;You divide the world up into false categories when you say that Life and Existence is a beautiful blessing but the products of the human mind are crap&#8221;</p>
<p>I harp on the idea that we humans have the potential to be &#8220;our real selves&#8221; but until a spiritual Awakening Event is attained, this potential remains dormant for most, unawakened and unrealized. For me there&#8217;s a difference between a Self and a self, unawakened. </p>
<p>By Awakening, one not only realizes the full spiritual potential and our consciousness is heightened to the responsibility of committing our Selves to the betterment of the world in a realized way. It&#8217;s possible to be spiritual w/o that Awakening but with that attainment, it&#8217;s much more committed, IMO and personal experience. </p>
<p>To all: May I ask if you&#8217;ve had an Awakening or not?</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Luke</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-21972</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-21972</guid>
		<description>Robert Kennedy&#039;s quotes on the subject:

&quot;Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total; of all those acts will be written the history of this generation.&quot;

&quot;It is not enough to understand, or to see clearly. The future will be shaped in the arena of human activity, by those willing to commit their minds and their bodies to the task.&quot;

&quot;There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?&quot;

Keep on keeping on! 

Best, FL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Kennedy&#8217;s quotes on the subject:</p>
<p>&#8220;Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total; of all those acts will be written the history of this generation.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;It is not enough to understand, or to see clearly. The future will be shaped in the arena of human activity, by those willing to commit their minds and their bodies to the task.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why&#8230; I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?&#8221;</p>
<p>Keep on keeping on! </p>
<p>Best, FL</p>
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		<title>By: darrell moneyhon</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-21797</link>
		<dc:creator>darrell moneyhon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-21797</guid>
		<description>Aliya, I think I found a way to say yes to both you and to Mr. Cohen on this &quot;matter.&quot; Somewhere in (I think) Thomas Merton&#039;s book, Mystics and Zen Masters, he distinguishes a triune of spirit that implied (as I recall) a branching or splitting of spirit into the modes of &quot;seeing,&quot; &quot;doing,&quot; and &quot;being.&quot; I have not been able to find the section where he says that yet, but I know he said it! Recently, in a sermon at the church I attend, the minister used the biblical passage about &quot;love God with all your heart, all your mind, and with all your soul&quot;. I had always taken that to me love God a lot, or fully, and that the passage was intentional rhetoric to convey that idea. But when I heard it the other day in the sermon, I was convicted with the belief that the 3 things - heart, mind, and soul - actually conveyed an earlier understanding about how spirit expresses itself, and understanding that, like so many others, may have gotten lost in the dust of religious and theological history. My mind connected the 3 things to Merton&#039;s 3 modes or aspects of spirit, and here is what I came up with, and am, to this day, very comfortable with (It seems to still ring true to me): 
   &quot;love&quot; in the passage probably is a slight misstranslation that really meant &quot;to align with,&quot; &quot;to follow,&quot; or &quot;to honor&quot; God. And &quot;heart would be the spiritual branch or vessel of the kind of &quot;love&quot; we earthly beings experience everyday (although at various levels of purity and integration). Heart is an energy center or strand for &quot;love.&quot; Love is one of three ways to express and to be &quot;spiritual.&quot; Also, it appears to me that love is spirit&#039;s way of doing. We think hands only &quot;do,&quot; but spirit does with love. 
   &quot;With all of you mind&quot; means the seeing function. Soul means the being function you speak of.  D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aliya, I think I found a way to say yes to both you and to Mr. Cohen on this &#8220;matter.&#8221; Somewhere in (I think) Thomas Merton&#8217;s book, Mystics and Zen Masters, he distinguishes a triune of spirit that implied (as I recall) a branching or splitting of spirit into the modes of &#8220;seeing,&#8221; &#8220;doing,&#8221; and &#8220;being.&#8221; I have not been able to find the section where he says that yet, but I know he said it! Recently, in a sermon at the church I attend, the minister used the biblical passage about &#8220;love God with all your heart, all your mind, and with all your soul&#8221;. I had always taken that to me love God a lot, or fully, and that the passage was intentional rhetoric to convey that idea. But when I heard it the other day in the sermon, I was convicted with the belief that the 3 things &#8211; heart, mind, and soul &#8211; actually conveyed an earlier understanding about how spirit expresses itself, and understanding that, like so many others, may have gotten lost in the dust of religious and theological history. My mind connected the 3 things to Merton&#8217;s 3 modes or aspects of spirit, and here is what I came up with, and am, to this day, very comfortable with (It seems to still ring true to me):<br />
   &#8220;love&#8221; in the passage probably is a slight misstranslation that really meant &#8220;to align with,&#8221; &#8220;to follow,&#8221; or &#8220;to honor&#8221; God. And &#8220;heart would be the spiritual branch or vessel of the kind of &#8220;love&#8221; we earthly beings experience everyday (although at various levels of purity and integration). Heart is an energy center or strand for &#8220;love.&#8221; Love is one of three ways to express and to be &#8220;spiritual.&#8221; Also, it appears to me that love is spirit&#8217;s way of doing. We think hands only &#8220;do,&#8221; but spirit does with love.<br />
   &#8220;With all of you mind&#8221; means the seeing function. Soul means the being function you speak of.  D</p>
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		<title>By: darrell moneyhon</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-21794</link>
		<dc:creator>darrell moneyhon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-21794</guid>
		<description>Prerena, Thanks for that quote. I hadn&#039;t heard it before. Rings true to &quot;faith without works,&quot; etc.  And does fit very well with the main theme of Andrew&#039;s post. 

    Darrell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prerena, Thanks for that quote. I hadn&#8217;t heard it before. Rings true to &#8220;faith without works,&#8221; etc.  And does fit very well with the main theme of Andrew&#8217;s post. </p>
<p>    Darrell</p>
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		<title>By: darrell moneyhon</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-21742</link>
		<dc:creator>darrell moneyhon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-21742</guid>
		<description>Frank, A book by Werner Lange, called Social Spirituality, addresses the social branch of spirituality very well. But I think this 2004 book was self published, and possibly difficult to get hold of. Lange is a sociologist and minister who is a professor at the college my youngest son, John, attended - Edinboro University, Penn. Lange tracks the social (or as you say, connective) branch of spirituality back to the Social Gospel movement in the early 1900&#039;s, and also cites earlier (much earlier- ancient) cosmological theologies as origins of the concept of a social spirituality. He also mention&#039;s Mathew Fox&#039;s Creation Spirituality (a book published in 1994) as an important thread in the narative about the social aspect of spirituality. 
  Here is an excerpt from Werner that I (with his permission, by email) included in my (unpublished) book Allsville Emerging: 

    &quot;At the center of the social gospel is the concept and reality of the kingdom of God. Much like The Spirit itself, the kingdom of God has both an individual and a social dimension: both a material as well as nonmaterial manifestation; and both a heavenly and earthly residency. ...Clearly, the kingdom of God demands fulfillment of both the physical and spiritual needs of humanity. However, it also projects not only the centrality of the spiritual, but the economic conversion of society once the spiritual is the social focus. Instead of an economy based upon the search for and maximization of private profit, the godly search is for social righteousness and its maximization. Rather than a society enriching the few at the expense of the many, there is a society that uses all of its resources to promote the common good through abolition of material poverty and elevation of spiritual wealth.&quot;

   Darrell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, A book by Werner Lange, called Social Spirituality, addresses the social branch of spirituality very well. But I think this 2004 book was self published, and possibly difficult to get hold of. Lange is a sociologist and minister who is a professor at the college my youngest son, John, attended &#8211; Edinboro University, Penn. Lange tracks the social (or as you say, connective) branch of spirituality back to the Social Gospel movement in the early 1900&#8242;s, and also cites earlier (much earlier- ancient) cosmological theologies as origins of the concept of a social spirituality. He also mention&#8217;s Mathew Fox&#8217;s Creation Spirituality (a book published in 1994) as an important thread in the narative about the social aspect of spirituality.<br />
  Here is an excerpt from Werner that I (with his permission, by email) included in my (unpublished) book Allsville Emerging: </p>
<p>    &#8220;At the center of the social gospel is the concept and reality of the kingdom of God. Much like The Spirit itself, the kingdom of God has both an individual and a social dimension: both a material as well as nonmaterial manifestation; and both a heavenly and earthly residency. &#8230;Clearly, the kingdom of God demands fulfillment of both the physical and spiritual needs of humanity. However, it also projects not only the centrality of the spiritual, but the economic conversion of society once the spiritual is the social focus. Instead of an economy based upon the search for and maximization of private profit, the godly search is for social righteousness and its maximization. Rather than a society enriching the few at the expense of the many, there is a society that uses all of its resources to promote the common good through abolition of material poverty and elevation of spiritual wealth.&#8221;</p>
<p>   Darrell</p>
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		<title>By: darrell moneyhon</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-21741</link>
		<dc:creator>darrell moneyhon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-21741</guid>
		<description>Frank, The following is an excerpt from a paper by Arthur F. Deikman in a 1973 anthology entitled The Nature of Human Consciousness: A Book of Readings, by Robert E. Ornstein. I used this excerpt as well in my (as yet unpublished) book Allsville Emerging: Creating and Experiencing a New Culture Together. The excerpt seems to really fit with what you and Cohen said. 

&quot;The crises now facing the human race are technically solvable. Controlling population, reducing pollution, and eliminating racism and war do not require new inventions. Yet these problems may prove fatally insolvable because what is required is a shift in values, in self-definition, and in world view on the part of each person - for it is the individual consciousness that is the problem. Our survival is threatened now because of our great success in manipulating our environment and acting on others. The action mode has ruled our individual lives and our national politics, and the I-It relationship that has provided the base for technical mastery is now the primary obstacle to saving our race. If, however, each person were able to feel an identity with other persons and with his environment, to see himself as part of a larger unity, he would have that sense of oneness that supports the selfless actions necessary to regulate population growth, minimize pollution, and end war. The receptive mode we have been discussing is the mode in which this identification - the I-Thou relationship - exists and it may be needed to provide the experiential base for the values and world view now needed so desperately by our society as a whole.&quot;   

Darrell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, The following is an excerpt from a paper by Arthur F. Deikman in a 1973 anthology entitled The Nature of Human Consciousness: A Book of Readings, by Robert E. Ornstein. I used this excerpt as well in my (as yet unpublished) book Allsville Emerging: Creating and Experiencing a New Culture Together. The excerpt seems to really fit with what you and Cohen said. </p>
<p>&#8220;The crises now facing the human race are technically solvable. Controlling population, reducing pollution, and eliminating racism and war do not require new inventions. Yet these problems may prove fatally insolvable because what is required is a shift in values, in self-definition, and in world view on the part of each person &#8211; for it is the individual consciousness that is the problem. Our survival is threatened now because of our great success in manipulating our environment and acting on others. The action mode has ruled our individual lives and our national politics, and the I-It relationship that has provided the base for technical mastery is now the primary obstacle to saving our race. If, however, each person were able to feel an identity with other persons and with his environment, to see himself as part of a larger unity, he would have that sense of oneness that supports the selfless actions necessary to regulate population growth, minimize pollution, and end war. The receptive mode we have been discussing is the mode in which this identification &#8211; the I-Thou relationship &#8211; exists and it may be needed to provide the experiential base for the values and world view now needed so desperately by our society as a whole.&#8221;   </p>
<p>Darrell</p>
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		<title>By: darrell moneyhon</title>
		<link>http://magazine.enlightennext.org/2010/07/07/the-importance-of-an-evolutionary-worldview-quote-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-21738</link>
		<dc:creator>darrell moneyhon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magazine.enlightennext.org/?p=5202#comment-21738</guid>
		<description>Frank, I think you nailed the concept that was put forward by Cohen. Similar to Wilber&#039;s state vs. stage distinction. Yes the cognitive line includes world view, social paradigms, etc. and must be involved heavily in cultural/social change/evolution. In the below pasted-in version of a post from Integral Life, I distinguish three main modes of spirituality, and suggest that all three be acknowledged, honored, and cultivated if we are to have a form of spirituality that consistently moves us forward individually and collectively. The post also takes a stab at explaining how this 3-in-one view of spirit unfolding helps account for the difference between &quot;horozontal enlightenment&quot; (Wilber&#039;s term for mastering meditation, but without translating the enlightenment into stage advance) and &quot;vertical enlightenment&quot; (in which, according to Wilber, you spiritally grow into higher structural stages of integration). 
   &quot;soul&quot; does state, &quot;mind&quot; does &quot;world view,&quot; etc. &quot;love&quot; does community/world-enacting. 
   Here is the meat of the post (minus the introductory comments): 
The Multiple Choice Test of Faith: 
&quot;23. Faith is developed from/by: 
        a. love
        b. peace
        c. truth
        d. all of the above
        e. none of the above. &quot;
 
The correct answer (IMO!):

Love is not the answer.
Peace is not the answer.
Even truth is not the answer.  
The answer is both d. and e., all of the above and none of the above. 
 
Here is why: 
Love God (wholeness) with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul. 
  Means honor/follow God with all three functions of 
    Seeing there (mind/truth), Getting there (heart/love), and Being there (soul/peace), but none alone nor not all three simply pasted together - only all three woven together in an integrated fashion.
Darrell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, I think you nailed the concept that was put forward by Cohen. Similar to Wilber&#8217;s state vs. stage distinction. Yes the cognitive line includes world view, social paradigms, etc. and must be involved heavily in cultural/social change/evolution. In the below pasted-in version of a post from Integral Life, I distinguish three main modes of spirituality, and suggest that all three be acknowledged, honored, and cultivated if we are to have a form of spirituality that consistently moves us forward individually and collectively. The post also takes a stab at explaining how this 3-in-one view of spirit unfolding helps account for the difference between &#8220;horozontal enlightenment&#8221; (Wilber&#8217;s term for mastering meditation, but without translating the enlightenment into stage advance) and &#8220;vertical enlightenment&#8221; (in which, according to Wilber, you spiritally grow into higher structural stages of integration).<br />
   &#8220;soul&#8221; does state, &#8220;mind&#8221; does &#8220;world view,&#8221; etc. &#8220;love&#8221; does community/world-enacting.<br />
   Here is the meat of the post (minus the introductory comments):<br />
The Multiple Choice Test of Faith: <br />
&#8220;23. Faith is developed from/by: <br />
        a. love<br />
        b. peace<br />
        c. truth<br />
        d. all of the above<br />
        e. none of the above. &#8221;<br />
 <br />
The correct answer (IMO!):</p>
<p>Love is not the answer.<br />
Peace is not the answer.<br />
Even truth is not the answer.  <br />
The answer is both d. and e., all of the above and none of the above. <br />
 <br />
Here is why: <br />
Love God (wholeness) with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul. <br />
  Means honor/follow God with all three functions of <br />
    Seeing there (mind/truth), Getting there (heart/love), and Being there (soul/peace), but none alone nor not all three simply pasted together &#8211; only all three woven together in an integrated fashion.<br />
Darrell</p>
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