Integral vs. Evolutionary: A Dialogue (Listen LIVE Online)
Listen live via webcast or, if you’re in London, attend the event in person.
Sunday, 30 May, 7.15 – 9.00pm BST (2.15 – 4.00pm EDT)
Cost £10 (via webcast OR in person)
>> Register to attend at EnlightenNext’s London Centre.
>> Register to listen live via webcast.*
Integral vs. Evolutionary
What Is Really Emerging Now?
A dialogue between Terry Patten, coauthor with Ken Wilber of Integral Life Practice, and Chris Parish, teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment and Managing Director of EnlightenNext UK.
At the leading edges of human consciousness, the outlines of the next historically significant stage of cultural development are beginning to come into view. Some call this new stage of consciousness and shared values the “integral worldview,” while others are calling it the “evolutionary worldview.” How do these worldviews differ? Where do they converge? And will we eventually need to choose one over the other to bring the next stage into being?
Don’t miss Terry Patten and Chris Parish as they engage in a live exploration of these questions and bring to light some powerful distinctions between the integral and evolutionary perspectives. You can listen LIVE via webcast (and ask questions via email) or attend the dialogue in person at the EnlightenNext UK London Centre, where you’ll be able to pose your questions directly to Terry and Chris.
>> Register to attend at EnlightenNext’s London Centre.
>> Register to listen live via webcast.*
*After registration you will receive an email with all the details you will need to join this event live via online webcast. All registrants will receive an MP3 audio of the event a few days afterward free of charge.
About the speakers:
Terry Patten is a leading voice in the fields of integral evolutionary practice, leadership, and spirituality. He speaks and consults internationally, inspiring, challenging, and connecting integral and evolutionary leaders and institutions worldwide. A gifted communicator, community-builder, successful entrepreneur, and author of four books, Terry has worked for over three decades as a philosopher, activist, coach, consultant, and teacher, helping leaders embody higher consciousness in practical actions that transform complex systems. He is the author, with Ken Wilber, of Integral Life Practice. His personal website is www.IntegralHeart.com.
Chris Parish is Managing Director of the EnlightenNext Centre in London and also serves on EnlightenNext’s Board of Directors. A serious spiritual practitioner for over thirty-five years, Parish has been studying with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, the founder of EnlightenNext, since 1986. As Cohen’s most senior student and a teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment, Chris has played a key role throughout the history of EnlightenNext. As cofounder of the EnlightenNext London Center in 1992, he has guided the evolution of individuals and groups throughout the UK. He has also directed EnlightenNext centers in Holland, Germany, and Australia.
Filed Under: Consciousness • Cultural Evolution • Culture • EnlightenNext Editors’ Blog • Evolutionary Enlightenment • Evolutionary Spirituality • Integral Philosophy
How can “the next historically significant stage of cultural development” be coming into view for some claiming people in here, if even the present stage of “their human consciousness of the leading edges (so pompous!)” has not come yet into the view of their awareness?
Instead of being so pretentiously projecting their own understanding and claiming possession over the always unknown future, why do not such people just sit quietly and meditate?
Meditation will make them more aware of their state of being and real understanding; better then all the imagined categorized and conceptualized world views.
And what does it matter for Existence if you call your delusional projections over the always unknown future “integral or evolutionnary”? And how can you be sure there will be a future at the first place?
The only thing there is, is what is Now and Here. All the rest is mind tricks.
So the only real change there can be, is to be aware and conscious Now and Here.
Awareness Now and Here – that I call “human consciousness of the leading edges”.
So Aliya won’t be creating anything then?
You are right, dear Giordano, Aliya WILL not be creating anything then, in the future, because future is not yet. And how can you create in some time which is not? At the most you can project there mind illusions, but it is not real creation.
That is why Aliya IS creating Now and Here, in the only reality, the present moment.
I don’t think anyone is ‘claiming’ anything, it seems like they are speaking from their own experience or insight about intuiting the future from deep meditation and contemplation.
“Experiencing the future”? – Is this magazine for fortune tellers or for conscious human beings? And how can you experience something which is not?
“Meditating about the future”? – It is absolute contradiction of terms – meditating means to remain aware, alert, watchful Now and Here, in the present moment, not projecting over some future.
Words are beautiful, it is nice playing with. However, we have to take care to choose words which are truthful as well.
Aliya, your defense of Traditional Enlightenment is continually impressive, but EnlightenNext is also about the Next Enlightenment. Are you familiar with some of our videos and writings about that? Here are some good links that might help clarify why we keep going on about “the future,” “what’s next,” etc., as opposed to merely emphasizing the “power of now.”
The Evolution of Enlightenment — Andrew Cohen’s new article explaining the new evolutionary nonduality that he advocates, as distinct from traditional Advaita Vedanta
The Evolution of Enlightenment — a classic video featuring Andrew making the same basic distinction
The New Enlightenment — another good article
Cultural Evolution at the Leading Edge — a new video featuring Andrew (recorded in Boston last month)
Being and Becoming — a classic 27-minute video in which Andrew explains the distinction–and ultimate nonduality–between abiding in the Now and embracing the world of time and change
Dear Tom,
I defend no thing. I simply share my own experiencing which is also the experiencing of all the enlightened beings who have ever lived or will ever live on this beautiful earth.
You however, reveal to be the specialist in categorizations, classifications, differenciations, etc. (timeless / time; traditional / next; wetness/river).
And you are right, for people of the mind identification present means nothing, all it matters is past or future, which simply are not (past is no more and future is not yet, and who knows?). But mind / ego can exist only in projecting its illusory self on that which is not. In the present moment there is no mind/ego, it ceases to be. In the present Now and Here there is only being, only awareness, only consciousness.
While their is neither light nor darkness,
neither sound nor silence,
neither heard nor unheard,
neither positive nor negative,
neither sweet nor tasteless,
only that which is constant
and eternal pervades beyond
creation and destruction.
the siren of the train may create a
supersonic impression of GOD as
easily as of OM or ALLAH.
NATURE resounds creativity.
why is human race not been able
to reproduce ( utter ) it ?
the easiest way to be able to utter
it, is to be integrated.
Aliya,
Awareness of the here and now is only a polar awareness if it isn’t balanced with its compliment, an awareness of the infinite, to include an awareness of deep time. It’s making too much out of the fact that we do our living in the present moment to extrapolate from that that the past and the future don’t mean anything.
Your view of culture is also wanting. Without culture we would have no language and very few skills–our brains, in other words, would have been stuck on first base. Check out the story of the Jungle Woman, link is below. I mean, do we really need to go there? We know that animals and children that aren’t sufficiently nurtured and socialized tend not to live up to their full potential because they suffer so much emotionally from their maladjustment.
Your idea about the mind being a projection machine of a delusional ego is likewise quite narrow. The mind is Nature, not some isolated phenomenon; human beings are Nature, not some category of their own; you are Nature, not some objectified “Self” that you make yourself out to be. All of Nature, most of which is subconscious, to include ourselves, is in a process of development. The growth of consciousness lies in becoming aware of the single Organism out of which we emerge and that faces us every moment–past, present and future.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/28/cambodias-jungle-woman-runs-away-home-believed-returned-forest/
“It’s making too much out of the fact that we do our living in the present moment to extrapolate from that that the past and the future don’t mean anything.”
Amen, Caroline! After all, what is “the present moment” without past and future?
Timelessness and Time are two sides of the same coin. The wetness and the river are one. Or, to use another metaphor, “the fire and the rose are one” (T.S. Eliot).
Time is neither “deep” nor shallow. Time simply is not, time is our psychology or mind projected over existence. Time is Mind or Mind is Time.
Our being however, is eternal, we are eternity. And the door to this eternity, the Golden Gate to the Kingdom of God is the present moment, the Now and Here.
It is not that “the past and the future don’t mean anything”. (Why should they mean at the first place?)
Past is no more, it is dead. That is why the mind is bound to go back in the past again and again – mind can interpret and project itself on the past as much as it wants, because mind wants to control existence. However, mind cannot control that which really is, the present. The present moment is so powerful, so full of Being, that the mind is helpless; it simply ceases to be, fades away and subsides to the power of Being.
Mind prefers Past or Future, which are not, and thus mind can model them the way it wants. Either mind projects its own limited interpretations on the past or mind projects its past memories on the future.
That is not Consciousness developing, that is covering Consciousness with mind junk. Consciousness is always Here and always Now – we just have to look at it directly, without the illusory veil of the ever pretending mind.
Aliya,
And, thus, living in the Here and Now as you do, what is your consciousness aware of as you go through your day?
If you wish to be considered seriously and not as someone who’s merely throwing out important sounding concepts without any substantiation, you will need to come to the table with examples of such an experience. You have yet to provide even one example of what such a consciousness, without mind, would look, feel, be like. When anyone asks you for such an example, you invariably come back full of retort of what a fool they are for even asking!
Really, that is the wrong attitude to take. If you truly have something to contribute, then please have the humility to share it. Otherwise, you’re simply perceived to be blowing your horn, and that my friend indicates a real fool; i.e., someone who can’t see her own ego for all the projections she’s involved in.
So, allow me to repeat: And, thus, living in the Here and Now as you do, what is your consciousness aware of as you go through your day?
Dear Caroline,
Living in the Here and Now is not different from consciousness. These are two different expressions of the same thing.
So when I am in the Here and Now, my consciousness is (of) that Here and Now. I remain alert, watchful, witnessing the present moment here – whatever it happens to be, whatever I may be doing in this present moment – I just remain the watcher, distant, aloof, not identified with anything around or in my mind. I remain well centered and rooted within my being. By remaining a pure witness of whatever there is, without judging or appraising, without verbalizing my feelings or passing thoughts, but only watching them, I remain crystalized and integrated being. It is like an arrow with two ends – one end is always remaining centered within me and the other end of the arrow goes to the object of observation. It is not that I loose myself by projecting all my attention onto the outer objects, but rather I always keep an awareness of the seer, not only of the seen.
I have already talked much especially for you about this watchfulness. And I may continue talking, however, it is up to you to start experiencing it. In the beginning it may be difficult – you will be caught again and again into the web of the chattering mind, thoughts will go on taking you hither and tither. It is enough that you realize in a moment that once again you have been caught in thinking. Realizing it is enough you to get out of the thoughts. Slowly slowly thoughts will become lesser and lesser and the gaps of awareness and centeredness into your being will be longer and longer. Words will disappear from your consciousness. There is no desire, no ambition to be fulfilled. One is now and here. In that tranquility, in that calmness, you become aware of a luminous quality to existence.
Then the trees and the mountains and the rivers and the people are all surrounded with a subtle aura. They are all radiating life, and it is one life in different forms. The flowering of one existence in millions of forms, in millions of flowers.
THIS experience is God. And it is everybody’s birthright, because whether you know it or not you are already part of it.
Aliya,
I guess you could say that I’m one of those lucky ones. My early years were deprived somewhat of stimulation so I never did develop this “mind chatter” that you talk about. In fact, I find that I’m not much different than my cat–we relate in the same way, in immediate sensory knowing. I rarely find myself thinking during the day and I have no ability to picture images. But because of this something else kicked in–my neurons, not finding anything laterally to connect to, went down instead and deep, like the roots of a tree in search of water.
That is why I don’t buy a thing you say–because you are not coming from Center, but rather doing everything you can to escape from it. All I can say is, get in touch with your feelings. You will probably have to dig pretty deep to find any, but only then will you begin to know who you are.
Neo Advaita is a lie. There is a doer and that doer is Existence, of which we and all else, IS. And what do you suppose moves Existence? Is it a passive witnessing of the present moment? A desireless watchfulness? I don’t think so. Revelations 3:15-16: Be Ye Neither Hot Nor Cold, I Spew Ye Out of My Mouth!
Here again, you are caught in thinking, Caroline! Thinking and drawing wrong conclusions. Come back to your inner center!
“Be Ye Neither Hot Nor Cold” – Jesus has told you the same non duality truth about yourself as I keep telling you – remain a witness, remain detached and aloof – “neither hot nor cold”.
P.S Thank you for bringing the beautiful revelation.
“Be Ye Neither Hot Nor Cold” – Jesus has told you the same non duality truth about yourself as I keep telling you – remain a witness, remain detached and aloof – “neither hot nor cold”.
Only when you remain a witness you will come to know who the real doer is.
P.S Thank you for bringing the beautiful revelation.
Aliya,
Where are you getting that about Jesus? In complete contradistinction to your claim, Jesus was hot and most certainly not a passive witness!
To be a witness, neither hot nor cold, does not mean to be passive. It means to witness, watch, to be alert about your hot or cold feelings, thoughts and other mind stuff. To be a witness means to be aware, conscious about your mind games. Once you have unidentified yourself from the mind play you automatically fall into your center of being. Then whatever you do is out of your true inner nature, whatever you act is out of your totality. When you act totally, wholeheartedly, from the center of your being, not poisoned by your mind, you cannot be superficial and lukewarm anymore. Then you are yourself, authentic and utter individuality – the way Jesus was authentic and utterly himself.
Child is in a way the greatest scientist.
All great scientists had the vision of
child in them,quest to know.all their
efforts and research results are devoted
to human race and it’s survival only.
wisdom to utilise this knowledge effectively
is duty of every person on earth for future
generations to appreciate.
Great visionary and scientist Albert Einstein
continuousiy worked to reveal a fundamental
principle governing every thing almost for many
years and this paved the some material in the
foundation for a long journey towards unified
energy field, thory of every thing ,and quantam
dynamics. Science is the quest of nature.the
knowledge of the attributive is the knowledge
of nature which is analysis of atom (microscopic
vision ).
The visionaries of the formless whom we refer as
SAINTS say ‘ How can we have the knowledge of
non attributive ‘.the non attributive can be known
only by being one with it (macroscopic vision ).
a saint has dissolved own ego and that is one minus
one is zero ,once zero always zero.
which brings us the question, is there really a present moment ? time is not still, it is a constant change, every so called present moment is becoming the past
so the only way we can be present is when we are out of our mind ( not to be confused with present condition of humankind ). in other words ,where there is no mind