Genpo Roshi & Andrew Cohen on the Teacher-Student Relationship
by Tom Huston | July 2, 2009 at 11:29pm | 6 comments
In this excerpt from a two-hour dialogue conducted last week at the EnlightenNext World Center, Andrew Cohen, spiritual teacher and founder of EnlightenNext, and Genpo Roshi, a modern American Zen master, discuss the dynamics of spiritual hierarchy in the teacher-student relationship:
To read more about Genpo Roshi’s visit to EnlightenNext HQ, see my earlier post.
Filed Under: Consciousness • EnlightenNext Editors’ Blog • Evolutionary Enlightenment • Spirituality
I personally am glad that peer-to-peer spiritual practice is on the rise. Hopefully P2P practice, along with more mature Buddhist communities, can protect against abuses of power, money, and sex so prevalent in authoritarian practice communities.
Wauw, thanks for coming together and that you offer this gift.
LOVE, Chahat
Thank you. I love to see a Buddhist teacher and a guy, Andrew, being what he says he is, and explaining it, at the same time. It has been said about Robin Williams that he can do this, but Robin is being a comedian
and Andrew is not. Also, it’s the best demonstration of true dialogue I have heard and seen for a very long time.
By the way, most teachers do not pour out dharma. Maybe most students are not vessels, but both are rare.
I have a few very close teacher/friends who have always made a huge impact on my life.
Our relationship is one of student/student, in that our conversations are premised on always being open to breakthroughs. This is only possible when we are both willing to give up what we think we know at the moment. We constantly challenge each other’s thinking.
One of my closest friends suggested that she always promises to get more out any interaction than the student gets.
She also is ready to dump 20 years of learning and teaching, in favor of the next phrase that comes out of any student’s mouth.
That’s called transformation….non-linear learning…..and has the most impact, whether we agree or not.
There are others who are like encyclopedias with attached microphones, expounding theory after theory, making sure to keep a certain distance from their own pronouncements so as not to get any on themselves.
When my life begins to work for me, then my ‘teacher’ has done a good job, even if I accept nothing from his own ‘library of good ideas’.
The best ‘teachers’ are those who can truly be themselves, whether they are comedians or tradesmen, or whatever. That’s what we want most in life….to be around those who are the most genuine, for that’s what we so desperately want for ourselves! It’s all about who they are, and not what they say!
We most closely connect with authenticity and connect least with someone who has something he thinks we lack and therefore need from him. Ever notice how many ‘teachers’ keep interrupting the other so as to fill in with their own opinions? It’s almost as if they were afraid of being shown up as less knowledgeable….having to maintain their position as ‘teacher.’
I remember a management consultant, suggesting that the ‘good reasons’ that his work and theories had made little difference to the company I was working with, was because there was ‘no buy-in’ by us, the employees. How arrogant!
You see, he was giving us ‘info’ and thought it would alter attitude.
If we take a look, we will probably notice that we are all full of all the info we’ll ever need.
Something else is missing and good teachers will ‘listen’ for what that is. It’s been said that a person can ‘listen someone’s soul into existence’.
It may not line up with the teachers’ agenda, but making a difference in the student’s life has to take precedence over any ‘wisdom’ the teacher believes he/she has.
Namaste
After reading the comments, I think what they say applies to the learning and transmossion of ideas. Another area is the direct transmission of experiences, and that is what the video is talking about. Imagine a teacher says “Come, I’ll show you my room.” Would you start discussing which way of the corridor to walk to?
In this sense, I distinctly see the wounds left in all of us by the hours and hours spent in all sorts of classrooms, being the victims of the arrogance of dull, empty teachers. They seem to have succeeded in one thing , though, in teaching us their arrogance as a way of self defence. Unless we recover our innocence we will continue to block the way to many refreshing, exciting experiences.
when they speak i hear the wisdom of ages. are we so clever to have seen though the masters plot to have us all follow them like sheep? there is an ancient and pervasive tradition of student/master relationships in our collective history. the signs of it are all around you. a tremendous amount of powerful knowledge and wisdom has been passed down through the ages in this manner.
there isn’t a mystical thought in our dizzy heads that didn’t at some point in time benefit from the tradition that Roshi and Cohen are speaking of. there has always been abuses of power this wont end any time soon but bending knee to the teacher is risky business and if your brave enough to engage one youd best bring your A game. are we so afraid to play with fire? the student/master relationship in all of its manifestations is not for the weak or the needy. it is best served by the strong and the willing.